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The A604 is a picky bugger when dealing with transmission fluid. This can provide quite the headache for its owners, rebuilders, and shops dealing with the transmission.
The basic rule to follow is this: no matter what year it is, use ATF4.
That is really all you need to know. You can stop reading now, or continue for a talk about fluids with this transmission.
Now, that said- here is the controversy.
Essentially this transmission is very state of the art, especially back when it came out in 1989. Because of the design, both from a traditional and nontraditional viewpoint (i.e. electrical controled etc) you have a very picky transmission.
Using the wrong fluid will:
A) Decrease shift quality
B) Increase Torque Converter Studder
C) Increase wear on the clutches
D) Decrease the overall life span of the transmission
E) Increase any existing problems with the "bump shift"
Chrysler's early solution was to use fluid 7176 (ATF3) in all A604s. This was originally thought to prevent the problems listed above, which were almost immediately found to occur to varying amounts when the trans is filled with Dexron.
Some early A604s are said to have shipped OEM with Dexron in them! Rather this be the case or not, it was a big no no, and from 1990 on ALL A604s (pre1999) shipped with ATF3 from the factory. There were some OEM screw ups along the way, some dipsticks say other afts are ok- its a lie, don't believe the dipstick. ONLY ONLY ONLY use ATF3 or ATF4 in a 1989-1999 A604/A606, ONLY use ATF4 in 1999+ models, and since ATF3 is continued- just use ATF4 in all of them. Period.
ATF3 was originally ONLY sold at the Mopar car dealerships and was specially designed by Chrysler and made for Chrysler. You could not walk into Advanced Auto and buy ATF3 back then.
This naturally was a problem for people who:
A) Did not live near a Chrysler dealer
B) Always think to go to NAPA/Advanced Auto for their own home done
repairs, and not the dealer.
To try to resolve this, some companies tried to produce an additive that could be mixed with Dexron to make ATF3 for the A604.
Cheveron tested these additives in the early 1990s and found that it was not quite the same as ATF3.
It did not take long for all the online sources on the A604 in the mid 90s to today (car message boards, email lists, usernet etc) to take note that the Dexron + Additive option just did not cut it. It was better than using just normal Dexron- but that is not saying much by any means.
Thus by the late 90s/early 2000s, you had every minivan, Prowler, intrepid and other related message board warning NOT to use Dexron, even when an additive was used to try to meet ATF3 specs.
I will tell you right now- Dexron + an Additive in 1992 was not the same as ATF3. It just wasn't. ATF3 still worked better.
At the same time, ATF3 has been changed by Chrysler at least once a year, every year- since 1989 until it was discontinued 10 years later. Thus EVEN IF DEXRON + AN ADDITIVE WAS THE SAME AS ATF3 IN THE EARLY 90s, IT WAS NOT THE CASE BY THE LATE 90s!
ATF3 was also alot more expensive than the other trans fluids on the market, so people trying to do their own fluid changes, or who wanted to top off their transmission fluid level- often did not think to go online to look up what fluid to use, and subsquently often used the wrong fluid without realizing it.
Chrysler did not make it easy either, especially during the 1990s, Chrysler was one of many sources of misinformation reguarding what fluid to use. In 1990 the factory service manuals (FSMs) said that ATF3 was optional and that it did not need to ever be replaced for the life of the transmission unless the vehical was used in fleet service. DON'T BELIEVE THIS.
Later in the mid 90s some minivans had dipsticks which said to use
Dexron (can you say typeo?). In both cases Chrysler was just plain
wrong. Anyone who works with this trans will tell you:
A) You should replace the fluid and filter every 1-3 years depending
how much you drive
B) DO NOT USE DEXRON.
To further throw things against the A604's favor, traditionally most shops had Dexron on hand for all automatics who came into the shop- there was a time when there were generic fluids that could work in most vehicals coming in off the street.
That time has come to pass, more and more car companies are switching to designer fluids like ATF3 and ATF4 which are highly specialized, and plainly put, are not the same as dexron for real reasons.
However not all shops know this, and not all techs are trained to know this. Additionally, some large transmission chains like AAMCO have been said to use flush machines which store large amounts of fluid at any given moments. Thus EVEN IF YOU BRING YOUR OWN FLUID, some shops can not use it to flush your transmission. I find it unlikely a shop with a huge flush machine filled with Dexron, can, let alone be willing, to drain it, fill it with ATF3 or ATF4 and flush YOUR transmission. Additionally I doubt most shops would have a flush machine for each type of fluid- i.e. a dexron machine, a atf4 machine etc. The best bet is to just do it yourself.
Poor training only amplifies the misconceptions about transmisison fluid. If you have a highschool kid with little or no traning doing transmission fluid- you think he would have been fimilar with the TSBs to know not to use dexron on an A604 with a dipstick that says to use dexron? This is why the dealer is better, in some cases, then a cheap quick change chain.
Now, in 1999 ATF3 was discontinued and Chrysler currently only makes and stocks ATF4. It is also a source of confusion. Basically all 1999 and newer cars need to use ATF4 (no matter what). Now, "will ATF4 work in my 1992 Caravan's A604?"
The short answer is yes. The TSBs say that ATF4 is backwords compatiable. You can use it to top of ATF3 or ATF2, and you can use it in an older transmission. BUT- there is a catch.
ATF4 is a full synethetic fluid. Just like with motor oils, if you already have a bad gasket or a small leak, it WILL get worse when/if you switch to a full synethetic oil. There are TSBs to say it can lead to a gasket or seal failure in an older transmission- this is why. I personally believe these concerns are blown out of proportion, and the benefit of using ATF4 over Dexron + an additive in an older transmission far exceeds any risk of the full synethetic fluid causing a seal or gasket problem.
You do not have to go to the dealer to get ATF4 anymore. It has been licensed out, and even the valvoline ATF4 in walmarts is the same exact stuff. HOWEVER there are some companies that make "universal fluids" that are marketted to work in ATF4 applications, Amsoil is one of these companies. There have been mixed reports on how this works, generally the rule of thumb is if your trans is in good shape it will work fine, but if your trans is old and needs a rebuild, a universal fluid may exhibit certain problems similar to using the wrong fluid (see list above).
In recent years, this has evolved into a debate, surprisingly enough.
Some rebuilders, even well known reliable ones like Power Demon, have started using Dexron + an additive to make ATF3. Yes, you read that correctly.
This is despite YEARS of everyone saying Dexron + Additives = big trouble.
I recently got in a heated debate with a rebuilder on this very topic.
My stance is this:
If you are paying $1200 to $3700 USD for a transmission rebuild, be it OEM spec or a custom build, what difference does $5 make? Not a whole hell of alot.
So why not spend the $5 per trans to go down and get the REAL ATF3 from a generic company- with the peace of mind that it is the correct fluid?
To me- going with what has already been shown to be an inferior fluid to save a couple bucks, translates into cutting corners. Why even consider an inferior fluid when the correct fluid is currently sold by generic companies??
It is not like ATF4 is hard to get or alot more in cost, this was true in years past for ATF3 but ATF4 simply isnt that overpriced, nor is it that hard to find.
Some rebuilders reply "I have yet to see a trans I've built with dexron come back with a fluid related failure"
But would you see it? I do not think you would.
The average A604 is rebuild somewhere around 150,000 miles.
If using dexron or dexron + an additive shortend the lifespan of the rebuild to 70,000-125,000 miles as opposed to an OEM typical 150,000-200,000+ then it is very well possible the rebuilder would never know that there was an effect on the lifespan of the trans build. Very few people keep their cars to 300,000 miles, especially in areas with a high rust problem like the North Eastern United States.
The most likely reality here is that:
1- the original owner when the trans did wear out again, realized its an old car, with a lot of miles and there is no reason to justify dumping the cost of another rebuild on it.
2- the older a car gets the more likely it will be junked due to being totalled out in an accident, rusted away from road salt, or sold as the owner upgrades to something newer (even if it is used).
3- VERY few car owners in the US still keep their cars for more than 10 years, if you have a ten year old car that you then pay to have the trans rebuilt for it- odds are that you're not going to still have that car when it is 20 years old, so if the inferior fluid takes even 5 years out of the lifespan of the trans you'll simply never know it (btw the first of these cars ARE now 20 years old, so the theory isn't just academic anymore).
That said there are a lot of signs that using the wrong fluid will effect the performance of the trans even if it does not cause a catestrophic hard part failure. If I pay to get a trans rebuilt, I want it to shift right. I don't want bad shifts just because my rebuilder was too cheap to use a better fluid... not even if it won't effect the lifespan of the unit.
Consider that even if there is a hard part failure, what are the odds anyone will even entertain the idea that the fluid type used played a role? The trans has such a bad reputation many techs & owners alike may just assume the problem is "just another A604 acting up" without considering that the fluid type played a role in the picture!
There are countless A604s resting in junkyards today simply because people, both in shops and as car owners, experienced limp-home mode and assumed it meant it was time for a costly rebuild, when all that was needed was a new speed sensor.
You must remeber that:
A) There are shops like AAMCO that allegedly build their A604s to
last just outside the warrenty period, so its not unheard of for
their rebuilds to literally die a year after warrenty
B) Alot of people assume the trans is kaput when the speed sensors go
and force the transmission into limp mode
C) Alot of people use the wrong fluid without knowing
D) Chrysler being cheap, did not use differential pin stoppers
A-D would dictate that alot of A604s get sent to the graveyard prematurely. Especially on a beater- who is going to pay for the diagnostic time to find out what is triggering limp mode when you can send the car to the junkyard, and get an other beater for the repair cost?
Add to that the fact that Chrysler did not use differential pin stoppers, and it is no surprise that this transmission has a bad reputation and track record.
Think that the A604 only ejects the differential pin from doing burnouts or spinning the tires? Think again.
Russ Jerome at TurboDodge.com wrote in early 2005 that "If you call around for a reman the first thing guy will ask is "is your core good?". Thats due to the fact they have a nasty habit of ejecting diff pins and wiping out complete case. Not whining I own a Grand with a 604."
An other guy, Turbometh replied "You can guarantee that the first snow will bring in at least a dozen broken diff's. The newer 41TE is a good trans (after 96) I think I have done about 5,000 of these trannys. I remember when I first started at the dealership in 94 that I would come to work and I would have like 7 trannys to do. As I would get one done another would come in. That was when they were covered under 7/70 they were all warranty. I do a lot more customer pay ones now."
So what should you get from all this?
A) Do your research and use the correct fluid, when in doubt- find a
good place to ask
B) Do not assume your shop knows what fluid to use, do not be affraid
to call and ask "what do you use for fluid? How do you do a
flush?"
Sources: Dodgetalk.com's archives, Allpar's archives, Allpar's A604 section found here, TurboDodge.com's archives, DodgeIntrepid.net's archives, DodgeForum.com's archives, and numerious Prowler, minivan sites named and not.